DIY M19 idea's

[DaveCan]

Thanks for all the advice and pointers GM..

It's too bad no one has done a modern M19 with plans and x-over etc.. Perhaps that would be a good direction for GPA to take, by adding a M-19 version on their site where the 902-8a drivers are loaded with a WG, and the 416-8c in a cab as best for it SQ wise etc.. That would be exciting to me for sure.. You can get all the drivers for a M-19 from GPA, for about half the cost as a pair of their 604III drivers... Seems like the new M-19 route would be the best way to spend the money if a person knew what they were doing, it's really too bad there isn't already plans for that type of WG loaded M-19

Dave

[GM]

Thanks for all the advice and pointers GM..

You're welcome!

Here's another WG that should work: DDS Waveguide Horn - DDS CFD ENG 1-90Pro Waveguide Horn - DDS CFD ENG 1-90Pro Waveguide 1" 90 x 90 fiberglass horn. DDS horns available now.

GM

[DaveCan]

Thanks! I just saw in the comments a guy that compared this one with an 811. I imagine it's not optimal, but 10 bucks is pretty cheap Parts-Express.comayton H12RW 12" Round Waveguide 1" Threaded | horn lens horn tweeter horn bell horn compression driver DaytonAudioWaveguides070109 SaveOver25PerOnHFWaveguides

Are WG's fairly forgiving? I mean to me it would seem like making a WG say the same size as the 416 or larger, would be the way to go and match nice too? I guess for the average home listening room too big of a WG may not work so well?

[GM]

True, but you'll have to use a relatively crappy driver unless you want to go through the hassle of adapting it to flange mounting. Then there's all the damping it requires...... Still, for an inexpensive system or just experimentation......... Sure wish these and others had been available way back when I was actively building for others.

Anyway, when matching a horn to a point source driver you want the two to have at least the same effective radiating area, ergo effective horn mouth area should = the point source driver's Sd at minimum. Note that this doesn't include the WG's mouth round over as witnessed by Dr. Geddes's Summa (ignore the foam insert 'dome'): Summa

If matching to another horn, then the HF horn's area should = the lower horn's throat area at minimum as witnessed by the A7-8 VOTT.

GM

[DaveCan]

Not that I understand all the math and such, but the Suma makes sense to me in that it uses a 15'' woofer and a 15'' WG for the CD.. So the 416 being 16'', a 16'' WG for the CD might be worth a go, and mate quite well if done right? I suppose the original M19 xover would not apply anymore either? So me thinks unless someone in the know wants to re-invent the M19? cough*GM *cough , what I didn't say anything lol..

Besides the M19 and those 212 drivers, I'm also really considering doing the Baszilla with the upgrade G2 ribbon , fostex 208sigma and Eminence Definimax 4015LF driver, just for easier diy that has already been worked out etc.. All these three systems minus building materials, are all in the same price ballpark etc..

Something tells me though, a reworked 19 would be just fabo, so I'll keep on researching lol

[Panomaniac]

811 horns are not hard to find or too expensive. And the rest you can buy new if you want.

Seems like a pretty easy project if you have woodworking skills.

[GM]

The 416 is a 15" in a 16" frame, so the WG would be nominally 15", though as I noted, the actual WG would be a bit smaller at ~12.76" to match the 416's effective piston diameter.

Yes, I imagine the m19's XO would require some tweaking.

Well, come on down and help me put my house back together and I'll be happy to re-invent the M19 if you fund the project.

Yeah, I use to recommend the Basszilla a lot, but most folks passed on it, so quit. Anyway, with various complete OB bass system designs available now it's apparently lost what little popularity it had.

GM

[DaveCan]

811 horns are not hard to find or too expensive. And the rest you can buy new if you want.

Seems like a pretty easy project if you have woodworking skills.

Yeah I had thought it would be a fairly easy idea, just find some used 811b horns and be done with it.. However those horns aren't really considered the best way to go nowadays for SQ, compared to some newer alternatives etc.. That's what I was thinking in starting this thread, that maybe a modern 2010 version could be done by re-working the 19 to today's technology, and use the new drivers from GPA, 902 or 909 and the 416-c...

GM, heading on down to your neck of the woods would be awesome , although getting there and back would use up my audio funds I went to North Carolina back in 1999 to meet a friend and very much enjoyed my visit and experience.. What they say about southern hospitality is definitely true, or at
least it was in my experience there

I really like the idea of having a high efficiency 2 way, and the 19 type definitely fits the bill.. My amp is a 6wrms SEP which needs more than the 2volt source input I'm using to come to full power.. So having a two way that pretty much does everything for music listening would be way cool I don't really care at all about HT and will save that experience for the odd night out at the movies.. I find most of the theater sound to suck anyways as they seem more set up for wow factor than anything else imo..


GPA if you're out there, how about a Wave Guided M19 all worked out by you guys, and we get the plans when we buy the drivers?? Same with some of the smaller cabs too, all re-worked modern equivalents etc.. That would be super awesome and make the decision to purchase the drivers way easier for the average diy'er without all the tech knowledge.. An M-19 WGuided modern version would be stellar!!

[Panomaniac]

There are probably some new horns out there that would work better than the 811. But the 811 isn't that bad. A little damping and it's rather nice.

But a good set made of wood or something inert would be much nicer. I'm still thinking layers of high density fiberboard. (board sans holes)

But who would want such a thing? Much too big by today's tastes.

[DaveCan]

I totally dig that idea.. To me the idea of making the horn from wood, be it a 811 type clone or a Wave Guide, just makes a lot of sense SQ wise.. The tone of wood is much nicer than plastic or metal etc.. I'd like to make (if I end up going for it) a M19 type cab in all Baltic Birch including the high frequency horn, or maybe Spruce.. That could be a real decent sounding cab, and finish it naturally too, no plastic type coatings etc, probably just cut Shellac with a French polish